The M3 Bearcast from Male Media Mind

Confronting Mental Struggles w/ Greg

Malcolm Travers Episode 53

Embarking on a journey through the thorny paths of mental health is never simple, and it's a trip I, Malcolm Travers, along with my perceptive comrade Greg Drayden, know all too well. As we unravel the tangle of emotions and fears that can deter individuals from seeking therapy, we confront the stigmas and the daunting task of recognizing symptoms. Our dialogue touches on the raw honesty needed to face the discomfort of self-examination, the art of harnessing one's anger constructively, and the role faith can play in the healing process. We weave in a deeply personal narrative, recounting experiences with the healthcare system and the repercussions these encounters have on our relationships and self-understanding.

Tuned in to the frequency of life's unpredictabilities, we share tales from the heart—like the creation of Mrs. Ritten, a character born from manic creativity, serving as a vessel for our unspoken thoughts. Drawing from our own experiences of managing a podcast while navigating the challenges of legal blindness, we find humor and resolve in the shared quirks of daily life. This episode isn't just about the struggles; it's a celebration of human resilience, a testament to the power of solidarity, and a reminder that no one walks this path alone.

A guest joins us for a sobering conversation, introducing a stark contrast with a firsthand account of sexual harassment within a professional setting. These difficult discussions open the floor to the complexities of consent, the definition of personal boundaries, and the intricate web of emotions that follow such violations. Our guest’s courage in sharing their story underscores the importance of transparency and the need for a supportive community where openness paves the way to recovery. Whether you're grappling with your own mental health battles or seeking to understand the journey of others, this episode offers a raw, unfiltered look at the ongoing fight for mental clarity in a world that often tries to obscure it.

Speaker 1:

Hello and welcome to the M3 Bearcast. My name is Malcolm Travers. I'm joined today with the talented Mr Drayden. What's going on, greg? As we usually like to do on Mondays, we like to record a podcast that we distribute every Tuesday in audio format. But our patrons get a little sneak peek at our recording process as well as a video version of the podcast, which I just put up today episode 50 for the patrons. You can see that on Patreon and it'll be available to everyone else tomorrow.

Speaker 1:

Today I have one topic that is not a video and I'm going to be testing some of the videos out that I play on my live stream every Wednesday at 7 pm Eastern. It's good to get, like, a Greg's take on some of these topics before we do it, because it gives me a preview as to whether or not it'll work at all. And usually, like he says, I try to trigger him, and so if he doesn't get triggered, like what's the point? I was saying that Greg has gotten himself in trouble, because I now realize how good of a podcaster he is. If you check out, see, now you raise your own standards.

Speaker 2:

See, now you got yourself in trouble because, oh, so let me stay slummin' it so I can start.

Speaker 1:

See, now I know you're capable of getting good audio quality. I'm not settling.

Speaker 2:

I have to sacrifice a part of my audience. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

So, yeah, the first topic is actually for me and I'm going through this right now. There's like reasons why people don't go to therapy. I've been talking with some of the people I do group sessions with about their reasons, and there's some, I think, that men have which is out of pride, just not wanting help, I think it's. I remember my dad was one of those cliches of men who would never ask for directions whenever they're lost, and he was horrible with directions, just like you might as well stab him in the neck and ask for directions, but I don't know.

Speaker 2:

No, I'm not that way, but just a little bit.

Speaker 1:

And then you gave another reason, which is that sometimes you're in denial of yourself and that denial is working for a long period of time, and I guess it's working until it's not working.

Speaker 2:

And so I think a little bit. I'm sorry. In one of the instances you gave I really disagree. But we'll play it and I'll take it.

Speaker 1:

Oh no, I'm not really keen on playing it, I'd rather us just talk about it, but the idea being that I think a lot of people get prideful about asking for help but also are thinking that they just could go back to the way things were, or they're afraid of discovering some things that they've managed to deny fairly well. So I think that's some of it, and then, of course, it's just the idea. It costs a lot of money, and I think for myself it could be somewhat of a lack of self-awareness. It's hard to talk about yourself if you don't really understand yourself that well. It's just hard to sit and wait a minute.

Speaker 2:

You think you don't understand yourself.

Speaker 1:

Well, I don't, I don't. I remember if I'm going to get a little personal here I remember talking to the doctor and saying, like one of the things of managing my illness is like knowing when I'm headed towards mania. And they give you all these symptoms and I'm not really going to get through them because they're out there and I don't want to admit to myself that I engage in these on a regular basis and I'd certainly don't want to admit that to other people because it sounds crazy. That's really one example of it. It's just I don't want to be that person.

Speaker 2:

But let me just tell you it's not crazy if that's what the symptoms are. And if you can help other people, yeah, I mean. So that's. I understand you're not want to disclose your personal information, but yeah, I don't like, I don't think that's a bad thing and I think you are aware of when you are triggered into these particular labels at least some of them.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, that's true, but it's just. Yeah, it is a really gray area at times, because sometimes I exist in that space and it doesn't go any further than that. I'm talking about mania, like classic bipolar mania, and it has definitely different levels of it. It can be like in first stages and those stages are nice, to be honest like it's like a happiness that everything has a glow. You start seeing meaning and things that really don't have any meaning. You're almost like you're stoned.

Speaker 2:

So can you? Can you do anything to stay in that particular moment, that is?

Speaker 1:

true, Like it is really keeping yourself from not going over the edge. It's almost like hyperventilating in some way. So when people pull out a paper bag or whatever, get some carbon dioxide in their lungs. You could do that. That is actually one thing you can do. It slows activity if you're not getting so much oxygen. There's also just calming techniques meditation, music. Music can be an issue though, because, like I said, like you start seeing patterns and shit in music. Yeah, that can make you trip out a little bit, but it is about that and then taking your medications or whatever coping strategies to calm yourself if you're going over the edge. But all of that, like I'm saying, requires self-awareness and like checking in. And another thing is therapy as a process is not a straight line, and that's a little difficult for me because I'm that sort of opto that I like to optimize everything. I like to do everything in the best, shortest, most efficient way possible, and therapy is anything but that. It's all about making mistakes.

Speaker 2:

But the question, ray does it make you feel better when you go to a session?

Speaker 1:

Sometimes, if I'm being real, it's not always. Sometimes it feels like a waste of time and it's possibly because I'm not really ready to delve into those topics that we're going into, so it feels like I'm just testing it until the day that I'm ready to talk about it.

Speaker 2:

And that's even with the therapist. Yeah, do you tell your therapist Like today is not the day.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I always wanted to be the day and it's not that sort of thing, but I think it's just I'm showing up so and I am doing the best I can, yeah, and that's the thing. Like I said, it's it gets rough because I wanted to just be a straight line.

Speaker 2:

Now you do realize nothing in life is particularly a straight line.

Speaker 1:

No, it's that, that dissonance between that desire and reality, that is a problem for me and therapy, because I'm like, I don't like talking about my shit.

Speaker 2:

If I'm being real, I know I feel uncomfortable, embarrassed awkward, but let me just tell you as your homie, there are millions of people going through what you go through and, as your homie, like there's nothing you can do or say that will stop me from loving you or being your homie. There's nothing in your behavior wheel, unless I'm trying to keep saying you mean, because I don't want to certainly tell your business. But let me just say I have been present and I had a really good time in your mania. I think we both did. I think it was interesting for both of us.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I said this before. There was certain words I would say that just brought you other complete joy and you just didn't laugh and I think you thought at the end of it when you came back there was going to be some temper.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's true when you love someone, that's it.

Speaker 2:

You're my friend, I love you. You're my family. The family doesn't always have to be birth family. So let me just share with you that for those of you who are out there who are going through some type of mental illness, and people look fine on the outside and I mean that's the problem with mental illness you can look well on the outside. Your hair could be done, you know me, but you're. It's mental, so people treat you the same. But I could. I've come to the point now I can almost tell when you're about to have something or going through something. Yeah, and now I know not how to deal. I just want you safe, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely, and I'm going through it and I feel better, taking a day at a time and all that. And yeah, it was really nice to know that, that I wasn't being judged even while I was going through that. And even though I'm personally embarrassed, it's not because of anything anyone else said or did. It's just because of my own expectations of myself that I feel I disappointed, like my own ideas, like who I am, and that really has nothing to do with how other people treat me. Yeah, no, it was good to know that you guys were holding down the fort to. I went back and watch some of the videos and I was just like, dude, these are good, and you did your podcast right here and I was like that felt good that you guys were doing well without me. It did feel good.

Speaker 2:

You gave a blueprint. You give a blueprint. So just know, each and every time you give a blueprint in those, in those family members who out there, if you can hear me, don't be afraid, there's help out there. There's family out there that can help you guys. That's what you know. Especially for you, malcolm, if you need time off, just, I don't even question anymore. You know what I mean. I got a couple of shows in the bucket ready to roll. You know what I mean, and so now I know how to prepare. You know what I mean. That's just what it is. Yeah, so how do you feel I have questions?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you mind can you answer?

Speaker 2:

Sure, let's talk about when you come back. How do you feel when you come back?

Speaker 1:

It is like I'm still going back through levels, like going back down, so like I still don't even think I'm back yet. I'm saying like I'm still letting the medications work their way through, doing my therapy and stuff like that. So I'm still working my way back and it's different every time. Like I've probably gone through this maybe three or four times in my life, had on full on manic episodes, and each of them are different. It seems to get worse if I'm being real or more close together. At least I don't know. Now that is true.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, but you and I'm just going to tell you from the outside of the community it seems that you are handling it better each time. Yeah, that's true, because, I don't know, the last time was shorter than the last time and this time was shorter, and that is a sign of healing.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Or at least dealing Right, but I want to make the point, ok. So those two words, healing and dealing. So some people out there you have an illness, like those who are HIV positive, those things you will never not be until they find a cure and you will never not have a mental illness until there's a cure. But you can deal, you can have, you have a wonderful life. You do. You have a wonderful life.

Speaker 1:

That's true.

Speaker 2:

I just want you to know that we love you here. Even though it's all good, it makes you really uncomfortable.

Speaker 1:

No, yeah, of course, like I said, the whole topic is about.

Speaker 2:

how Would you go please?

Speaker 1:

No, I'm just serious. The whole topic is how uncomfortable talking about myself makes me.

Speaker 2:

It makes you talk about it. How fucking suck.

Speaker 1:

No, it's fine. It's fine. I brought it up I have tons of questions, right? I brought it up, so there you go.

Speaker 2:

So I'm going to ask a question about the awareness when you're in an episode. Yeah, how aware are you, do you? Let's talk about the one that I witnessed, so that I was. Are you aware?

Speaker 1:

I was, I was quite aware, and that's actually what was so disturbing about it is that before I felt like I was a puppet and being moved around and acting on impulses that weren't mine. Versus this time it felt like me, even though an alternate version of me, of like a weird, bizarro version of myself, I was still in control, or at least the perception was. And that's the weird thing, of course, is like talking about out of body dissociations You're always in control, it's always you, but, like from your first person point of view, it sometimes doesn't feel like it's you. So even those episodes where it didn't feel like I was doing that obviously it was me, they were pressed.

Speaker 2:

Did you recognize I'm sorry? Did you recognize it was me?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, the only difference was is that I thought I was interpreting, seeing connections, thought I was different characters and people seeing things, literally seeing things. Some of it was adorable yeah, Absolutely. So. This is what's so funny. I don't know if I told you Mail Media Mind was actually a reference to my manic episodes. It was telling me when I become manic, I become different characters, Like I took up characters from fiction.

Speaker 2:

I'll come on to be honest with you. I created the talent of Mrs Ritten for that very reason. I don't have the same thing.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I created him to get shit off much as he said in those things I would never do, and I think that's one of the reasons why we identify with certain characters in fiction is that, yeah, there's something that we identify in them, and whatever it may be. So I figure some repressed part of my mind trying to release something.

Speaker 2:

I don't know. I think whatever and this is my non-scientific, I am nobody's doctor let me just say that I think at some point it's even so not having that diagnosis, let me start over. So not having that diagnosis, there's still points and times in my mental awareness that I just let go and just ah, I think we all have that. Yeah, those times and I'm not saying that you're running down the street, it's. It was I felt last, the last time that I witnessed I felt honored. You know what I mean? I felt like we were. We've been close for years, but I felt closer to you. I know that sounds weird, but I did.

Speaker 1:

No, it's real, because there aren't that many people. One who would listen to that, but also who I would trust to not feel some kind of way about it. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

And I'm so sorry you bring this up- that's okay.

Speaker 1:

No, I need to. That's the whole point. That's why I brought it up.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, but so I have another question what is your, what is the relationship with your family and your illness? What? How does your mother react to going through episodes? How does your brother react?

Speaker 1:

You know, yeah, they've gotten used to it. Now Maybe I wouldn't say used to it, but they've adjusted better to it. I would say the first couple of times it was rough, a lot rough, because also, like the police were involved, there was also like an incident. It was I was not safe in some of those incidents. Yeah, that absolutely destroyed my mom when she saw me getting arrested. I'm pretty sure and she never is gonna get over the but.

Speaker 2:

How she talked about it. Did she say anything about it?

Speaker 1:

No, she just can't go anywhere near the house where I was arrested or talk about it, or she gets into in her feelings about it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and for my, do you feel the need to apologize to her? I'm sorry.

Speaker 1:

No, I have and I try to. I try to have a constructive conversation with her about it. I don't know if I can right now, but I apologize to her when it does come up or she feels some kind of way I know. For a long time she just felt scared any time I left the house because she wasn't sure, that's real, that's real, yeah, yeah, so she's getting better.

Speaker 2:

I have those moments like when I don't hear from you. I get a little manic on my end because I worry about your safety, you know what I mean. I worry about your mom's safety. I worry about you, know. I wish we could work out a signal or something.

Speaker 3:

That's it, though, going down.

Speaker 2:

I told you later. It's going down Right. I just, sometimes I wish that there was and then, but I know as a friend, as a brother, that I just have to stand by.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I mean stand by. I have to keep. I have to keep the ship going and just stand by. It's a lot of work when you're going, brother.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it is. It's a lot of work period. It's the end.

Speaker 2:

Just don't realize how much? How many things you do, how much, and then. So now when I added on a podcast, and now with the pseudo duties at M3, it's a lot of shit, man, it's a lot of shit. I don't know if America knows this, but you do it all while being legally blind.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

It's fucking amazing.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I forget that too sometimes. It's actually been helpful to me to get in community with other people who are blind as well, because I sometimes forget that I thought about it. I started just doing Google searches of like how to study efficiently with low vision, or put into words, like how to do simple shit with low vision and people talking about their daily things, because, let's put it this way, I cannot keep a pair of earbuds right. I got this issue with earphones For one. They don't fit on my ear right, and if they drop, if I drop an earbud and it hits the floor, I'm not finding it. That's just going. I just like next time I grab the suite, the whole floor. That's not something my eyes are gonna do. The way my vision works. It's almost like it's a prediction type deal. Unless I know exactly where it is, I'm not gonna see it Because my visual feel is actually just being made up most of the time by, because, basically, macular degeneration is when that hole in the center of everyone's vision is just incredibly large.

Speaker 2:

So bro, I'm gonna tell you something.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I'm sighted and I've thrown away two pairs of earbuds.

Speaker 1:

I go through every day.

Speaker 2:

It has nothing to do with your blindness, but really. I think that's most people like that.

Speaker 1:

No, I'm just giving a small example of yeah, that's not a good one, it's not a good one, okay.

Speaker 2:

So listen. I don't know if let's see how we say stuff, can you see? Well, I have on the earbud, matt the earbud.

Speaker 1:

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm gonna have to.

Speaker 2:

We're still looking to get a pair. They are mine.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I am. I'm heavy as fuck.

Speaker 1:

My ears are sweating right now, but I need it because see, here's the other issue. I don't know Like people, don't know like proportion wise, I have a ginormous head. I can't wear hats and earbuds Unless they're like these, like strong metal. They will break because my head is just fat. I don't have a fat head.

Speaker 2:

Where is swag with the giggity button? Yeah.

Speaker 1:

It is true, the giggity button. So every time I get over the earhead folks they have to go behind my earhead or they have to be like really strong metal. I've been thinking about it. I do like good audio quality and people have recommended yeah.

Speaker 2:

So, yeah, you always complain about how sound, but this is the other life to do with the other sound. So I have a question for you Is there something that triggers you out of your episode? Is there a music or a phrase?

Speaker 1:

I think mostly I just got to get some sleep. Usually it's getting bad when my sleep is below two hours a night. That's how I know Really, that's really the main cue. If I haven't slept for more than two hours in more than three days, that would be. And to get some sleep I think it usually needs to get some exercise, do some meditation. Cleaning helps. Just putting away things, cleaning myself, my room, whatever, even filing computer things. That's what I was doing. To help me feel better Was like downloading all the videos If you ever need to come to my house. Ha ha ha ha. Putting stuff in order makes me feel so good. You are so welcome.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you can stay months if you like, I like that but I did get months worse of archiving done in two minutes Like Vanick episodes.

Speaker 2:

So I'm going to tell you this in public Because you're over archives. I was looking for, I went in to look for we were in the run of swag, I mean of cream, and you cleaned house. I was like, but you left one bag and I was like oh my God, thank God, oh yeah, I was like wow. And I noticed that, so take me through it. At which date, like you realize it's coming, you're not going to sleep. Can you just tell yourself Go to bed, no.

Speaker 1:

No, luckily now I have an emergency medication that I can take, which I didn't have before, which is like a tool that I can use. Take it with food and try to get some rest, like I said, other than that like exercise, like tire myself out till I have to rest, right.

Speaker 2:

So that means that that's great. So are you getting better with recognizing the? Oh yeah, I am.

Speaker 1:

And I think it helps Like I am in therapy and I am talking to other people who are dealing with the same thing and hearing their experiences with it has helped as well Just recognizing some of the consequences that are down the line if I don't do something about it.

Speaker 2:

Are they black? Some of them. Ok, I live in.

Speaker 1:

Albany. So luckily Mike in Albany.

Speaker 2:

Is it different for black people than non-black people? I don't know.

Speaker 1:

I don't know. Like I said, most of the people I interact with are black. That's true and it's not. I don't think it's indicative of the situation, but of where I live, like Albany, is 80% black. Everything's almost always black, unless it's.

Speaker 2:

I've been reading about your illness. Generally, highly intelligent people are diagnosed with your illness.

Speaker 3:

And you're super smart.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

You think that's part of it it can be.

Speaker 1:

I think intelligence can actually be a coping mechanism, so you can try to figure things out in a chaotic world, to try to make sense of it. That could be a self-soothing technique and so, strangely enough, they coexist. It's not one causes the other, but one might try to learn as much as they can about the world, to make sense of it and to in sense get control over it. But then what inevitably happens, the way I look at it is like this Every new thing I learned was felt like I was doing a puzzle and I put the puzzle piece and I feel grand and I go learn something else and put the puzzle piece until you realize there are no edges. This just goes on forever. You're never going to know everything. So then you're like, oh, it's not enough.

Speaker 2:

It's not enough to know everything. I also feel like that you're always. You're like always on a quest for your better self.

Speaker 4:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I feel like you're always on this quest which I started doing, that somehow that makes me a better person. So I think you, through there's light, through everything, you know what I mean. There's light through everything. That's being always as a good, always as bad, but I think I've learned that this is some things I can improve on. So do you mentor other people, like younger people?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I do. I sponsor people in a sort of a step program.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, Can you tell me just a teensy weensy bit about that?

Speaker 1:

It's really just about holding someone accountable. If someone has goals that they've set for themselves, you're there to talk with them about it. I've dealt with education, for instance helping people get their GED or go back to school, things like that Pretty satisfying as a person Teaching someone vocabulary words and then finding them using those words in their everyday speech this is. It does feel pretty good. I just heard he's using that word. I thought I knew.

Speaker 2:

What's the word that you talk?

Speaker 1:

something I'm trying to remember.

Speaker 2:

I can't remember, my favorite word this week is Jack's position.

Speaker 1:

Oh yeah, I think I might have done that one. I can't remember what word he used. I think he was. I can't remember right off the top of my hand.

Speaker 4:

But yeah, it was just using it in conversation.

Speaker 1:

We were doing a break. I didn't feel like it was forced either, that which felt good. But yeah, like I do that, I do group sessions for myself and we have topics to share about on those topics.

Speaker 2:

So how was dating with?

Speaker 1:

That is a good question. So that's another point as well. As we were mentioning, I am dating someone while I had an episode Now I've had that happen before and it was almost immediately a relationship over and so it is a little weird finding out that someone who I just started seeing like less than a month before my episode is willing to stick it out Because I, yeah, we, I have no idea. In that case, I almost am blocking out some of what I said to him because it was so crazy and weird. Like I said, he's never going to want to say talk to me again.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we're going to block it because I know because you said yeah, that's nobody's business, but the thing is you've had a good response this time. Yeah, I have, and even though you've had a, I think this is going to slight episode.

Speaker 1:

This is like episode light it is a little I did yeah, and I was saying like I guess I had new coping mechanisms, I had a new medication I could take. I even went down to the hospital and said I needed help because I was ready to check in. It was bad. And they didn't check you in. They didn't check me in. No, they sat me down with the counselor, we talked, and that's when they gave me the other medication. So man and we talked about getting into different therapies, right?

Speaker 2:

So it's working. It is, I mean, I have to say, because you know you are preparing to go down to rabbit hole, yeah, and so I know you, but you didn't. When you came back to work the other day, I was so afraid. Yeah, I was. Let me just tell you, I was afraid. I was like something might happen that might trigger somebody, might say something. Fuck, I might say something. I got a big mouth.

Speaker 1:

I was prepared to just click off, Like I would have been like where'd Bob go?

Speaker 2:

And that full disclosure that has happened.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

He looked up and bro is out. I'll say something jazzy and keep on going Right and, ladies and gentlemen, not all the time that you don't see him. He's going through an episode. We all need a day off, that's true. I don't want to get paid up. I get paid or he's fine.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I am.

Speaker 2:

I don't want y'all to think that, oh, my goodness, this is going to be no. So I have several questions actually so day to day. So like getting a new job, getting meeting new people, do you have to disclose your diagnosis?

Speaker 1:

That's a good point I have. I mean, it was actually lucky that I disclosed who I was dating with before I had the episode, so that was actually a positive thing. So I think it is in my best interest to disclose as soon as I can. But we were having a vulnerable moment and so I opened up to him about my mental health problems and, like I said, that's probably why he didn't run, because he was prepared for it.

Speaker 2:

That is super awesome. Now have you ever dated someone else that had the same diagnosis. No, that's fine. No.

Speaker 1:

No, actually, like I said, the only time I've met people who have a similar diagnosis is in group therapy myself, right Like meeting other people. But yeah, honestly, in my own real life, you know, I mentioned to you, the first time I even identified it was reading Mariah Carey's memoir, talking about her own connection with it and realizing symptoms vary for different people, but there are. Yeah, it's not uncommon, it's unfortunate.

Speaker 2:

There is one or two things you wanted the world to know, because we always think of simple flowers in the attic and things like that, but people walk amongst us every day with the diagnosis, so there's a few things you wanted the average person to know. What would they be? What would some average thing you want to be like? Listen, we're not the killer.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no, that is a good question. Yeah, I would just say that I don't know what anyone can know about someone else who has has a diagnosis. But just think about yourself, as that self-awareness is a great thing there are. I feel like a lot of what has occurred with myself has just been like repression and it coming out in really weird ways. So I think it's just to anyone who's not diagnosed with anything try not to lie to yourself about anything. Really try to be as honest with you as you can and if you feel like you need to talk to someone, go do that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, god, you make it sound so simple, I know.

Speaker 1:

You know, what's funny is that it is simple. It's just not easy. If that makes sense, right? It's simple. The steps are simple Know yourself, then know others right or talk to others. But that's not easy just because it's simple, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Black people be like lean on Jesus. Jesus psychiatrist.

Speaker 1:

I'm here for Jesus. If Jesus works for you, it actually does work for a lot of people. It should be noted as someone who works, people who are going through like 12 step programs, so like Jesus sometimes really is their co-pilot, and who am I to say otherwise? Yeah, that's all.

Speaker 2:

I'm gonna say Sometimes, as a devout kind of thing, we oversimplify things with the Jesus thing.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I would say the one thing I have a lot of respect for Catholicism is the sacrament of confession. If I got to be real, I don't know why more people don't do that Like why isn't that more ritualized in other faiths. Because I just think it's a really good idea. It's a really great idea.

Speaker 2:

Y'all, it works, it works. I don't know why more people don't do that. No, I'm just on the friends with my priest.

Speaker 1:

It's a little weird.

Speaker 2:

but yeah, it's cool. But my shit's like stupid. Please forgive me, I cursed too much today.

Speaker 1:

Shit like that, but that's the beginning of self-awareness, though it's actually just saying it out loud.

Speaker 2:

I've been going through some physical things and so I've had to become aware of healing doesn't happen in my time. That's my lesson, yeah. So you have made me very aware of this through your struggle and I just want to publicly say thank you. It's really dope to just know. We talked about a few shows ago allowing yourself to be angry and allowing that anger could be good. I was so mad at you about that because I was so angry. I was like anger cannot be good. Darkness is bad. You're a liar. I was like it was crazy.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no, I've talked with some people who have anger issues and to me, I think it's comforting to them to know that anger if you have these issues over and over it's an indication that you have felt violated at some point. If you pop off and you're one of those people who just gets angry every time someone does anything to you, that's like you making up for all the times that you didn't say something. Now are you?

Speaker 2:

that's so full circle moment. Are you angry with yourself when you come out of an episode? Is that what you're feeling?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I wish. Yeah, no, disappointed maybe. Like I said, I want to be as normal as I could be.

Speaker 2:

Let me just say, as a part of the chosen family here, you'll always come back to love. Just know that. Yeah, no matter how far you go, when you come back we love you and your mom, your brother, your family loves you. The M3 family loves you. And that's the one thing I always have to remember when I'm struggling, when it all hurts and I want to say fuck it and blow it all up, that when I get around or I do things, I can move around. I am going back to love, I'm coming back to love.

Speaker 3:

So just remember that is don't be mad.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, remember you're coming back to love and people love you and will embrace you in anything. We just want you to come back better than you left. Hopefully, yeah, hopefully.

Speaker 1:

So, on that note, I think we're gonna switch gears a little bit.

Speaker 2:

Recorded a whole show.

Speaker 1:

I know, but we're gonna go to Patreon and record one more topic. But yeah, become a patron. Go to patreoncomcomcomcom, mail Media Mind. For $5 a month you can be a M3 VIP. You get access to the VIP room after shows on our live streams, as well as early access to this podcast and behind the scenes of the podcast as we're recording. Because we're going to continue to record one more thing.

Speaker 2:

Right, and I don't think everybody who tuned in today. I cannot name you individually because we are recording a podcast, but thank you, the usual suspects.

Speaker 1:

That was good. I just I was like I wanted there to be some upbeat stuff too. I do have one. One I put in the topic is like a gimme Easy one had to do with. Was it a childhood crush? I'm going to play this real quick.

Speaker 4:

We're going to talk about this story time from sixth grade until, I believe, sophomore year I share, to stand in my music class with this kid who I had a crush on. But who am I to tell? My Jamaican music partner I, like he eventually quit, got a girlfriend in that dream, went out the window. Fast forward to my junior or senior year of college, random night out in town. There he is on the street. What are you doing here? He transferred and I'm not going to lie, it was nice seeing him. He still looked good, he still had his chunky weight, which made him very cute, and it was a pleasure.

Speaker 4:

But we never really stayed in touch, even after that, and by this time I was out of the closet. So I would have felt comfortable telling him how I felt. I do that, don't want to make things awkward. Fast forward five years later and I'm checking on his Instagram and what do I see? My Jamaican music man is dancing all up in the gay clubs having a ball, has a nice little boyfriend, he lost all this weight, has all this muscle. Now and this whole time I'm just kicking myself because deep down in my little sixth grade heart I knew he was gay. Something on my gaydar went off when I played with him, when I played music with him, and that feeling just grew more and more as we reached high school. There's something about him, his behavior, that I noticed that other people didn't. It's always fun every now and again to think back on those moments and just wonder what, if? Do you have any missed opportunities? Let me know in the comments.

Speaker 1:

So this is a fun topic. I do remember thinking how I was a little aggressive in sixth grade.

Speaker 1:

I did have something like flirting, I don't think any like got it, but I do remember I don't think anyone ever had any misconnections because I don't think any of them were receptive at all but I can remember that was probably in eighth grade, was probably when middle school it was probably a little earlier than that that I started to realize that I had attractions towards men boys, right, and I had no fucking clue what I was doing.

Speaker 2:

I started like the 34th grade. Okay, I'm gonna be honest with you, I'm not going to name names, but I ended up, as an adult, having an affair with the teacher I had a crush on. Oh my god. Oh my god. I would have done that for real and I told my mentor I was like that is so improfessional. It was like oh, but it was so good.

Speaker 1:

I remember my bad teacher used to wear these like super tight t-shirts, like we can even see his nipples. I'm like why are you doing this?

Speaker 3:

I sit here looking at him.

Speaker 2:

This is like you want you to blow that horn. Boy, Blow that horn.

Speaker 1:

It's like why are you I don't know Teasing?

Speaker 2:

me like this. Anyway, I don't know. Yeah, is it a good thing that you get what you want, or in life, the lesson be, something should be denied, I think so I think it.

Speaker 1:

I think we learn a lot from not getting what we want. Sometimes it's you learn that you wanted it even more than you thought you did. Even that's information that's useful and in the cases of my desires, for whoever I had crushes on, it would have been awful If they actually came true, because he would have been criminal getting with the teacher or something, cause I wasn't really that interested in my classmates so much as older people and that would have been a problem clearly.

Speaker 2:

So thank God, that did not happen. That's not a question. Yeah, what happens if a teenager pursues his teacher? Is that molestation? Absolutely yeah, it still is.

Speaker 1:

Cause, like I said, I was plenty ready to jump older people, and that's exactly why you don't have relationships with the young people because their judgment is compromised, their brains aren't fully developed, they're not really. They're not able to deal with the emotional consequences of sex, just really like the attachment levels, how people fucking imprint on you like a duckling and will forever love you. You don't want to fuck a little kid, let's just not do that. That's what happens, though. They imprint on you. They're so impressionable.

Speaker 1:

Unfortunately, I have to be honest, that actually happened to me. It was a guy who I didn't realize until later was younger than I thought he was. He was very large, 6'6", maybe even my size, maybe bigger, former football player, and we had messed around a few times and some years later he moved, got married and he told me how old he was and I started doing the math and I was like you weren't 18 when we first met. I was like this is not good. And of course, some 15 years later, he's you're my first love. We didn't have a relationship, we were just fucking. But that's what happens when you're that young you can imprint on someone and so, as an older person, you should know better, it's illegal. That's enough reason there, but even though everything that's illegal is immoral.

Speaker 1:

it is definitely immoral. Don't even question that it's immoral.

Speaker 2:

I agree. Yeah, I was looking. It's like I've never dated a young man.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. You know, I've never dated a young man. Yeah, and I know like for some people that is a fetish of theirs. They like them young looking that's the keyword looking. They want their little boys to shave and have very young, thin physiques and stuff like that.

Speaker 2:

But that's a trap, that's a trap, that's a trap. How I get what you're saying but I mean, you know I'm saying because you can say, young looking, but then you, that's the foray of and that's what I'm saying. I like grown people. I like you to look grown. I think I need to see your ID If you were. I'm down with that. I'm down If your ass wasn't born in the 20th century.

Speaker 1:

I'll put it this way. I definitely would say ask for ID if people, if that, if you're that certain type of black that you can't tell the age, even at 16, you look like you're 35. Just think it.

Speaker 2:

I tell people all the time I haven't changed very much since high school. Yeah, being at all, I was the big ass motherfucker To a point I still have some of my things from high school. Right, and then they thought my ass was a teacher.

Speaker 1:

I said I. That happened to me a couple of times where I get on the bus and everyone would get quiet because they thought for half a second I was the bus driver. I'm just one of the kids.

Speaker 2:

Which is you know now, with that said, does that make you mature? Does that make you mature faster?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it could have. It could. Yeah, I maybe had matured faster because I did not how do I say relate well to my peers, so I got lost in books and movies and video games and I don't know. That's a socialization thing rather than a maturity thing.

Speaker 2:

I always think about that time of my life. I always think of that song by David Lee Roth Hot for the Teacher See.

Speaker 1:

I think that that association with people your own age also teaches you how to act your own age as part of it. But I wasn't interested in anything my age. Be real. I was like y'all are stupid. I still don't understand getting blackout drunk and then doing it again and again. What are y'all doing? Like?

Speaker 2:

I see my seed, my case, and I was the ringly. All things bad and salacious, you know what I mean. I was like would you follow people if they tell you to jump off a bridge? I was like honey, I am the one time to jump off the bridge.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, that's funny.

Speaker 2:

But it is the case. But I think we should be denied sometimes. Yeah the thing that we want. And then it teaches us how to teach us how to cope with Loss and everything in life, isn't? I think we're talking about why you were gone like Disney movies, how they were designed to teach kids about some movies in Disney, kind of made them lullabies. But yeah teach you how to cope with death and loss of love and parents and stuff.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, they were definitely darker than when they were imagined. But I got one more and this had to do with sexual harassment and it's a call from someone who wants to want some advice and we can just talk about it in general.

Speaker 3:

Hey Dan, I'm a middle aged gay guy and going through the very middle aged time of doing a lot of reflection on life and whatnot. And what's come up recently as I've actually applied for a new leadership position in the volunteer organization that I'm a part of is they're asking gee, a few years back, you seem to give it all up and walk away. What's wrong? Why do you want to come back now? And the situation that happened was I had been mentored and taken under the wing of an older gay guy, like my parents age older gay guy who was nice and really grooming me for leadership and just telling me I was all these great, wonderful things. And I remember one night I went over to his house just to go over some paperwork with him about the job and his husband was literally dying upstairs of cancer and he had probably way too many drinks and ended up sticking his tongue down my throat and groping me and just trying to take some liberties. I pushed him away physically and emotionally and what ended up as the result of that was I pushed him away and then he pushed me away. I was pushed out of all my volunteer jobs and told wow, you remember all those nice things I said about you. No, you're actually horrible, you're doing a horrible job and we can't stand having you here. And so I left with my tail between my legs feeling okay, this sucks. What makes it worse is he's clergy. This is a church organization. I'm a church gay and I feel funny about it Applying for now, a leadership position within a church.

Speaker 3:

They're asking like hey, why do you leave all those years ago? It's because this clergy person tried to take liberties with me. I guess my question for you is how fucked up was this? Is it just? Oh, this was stupid. He was drunk, forgive it, move on. Which is what I told myself. Or, as I told it to one of the leaders at church, he just said no, that was a sexual assault and you need to feel really bad about it. I don't know how I feel about it, and I guess I'm not a twink anymore, but when I was, I got used to older gay guys taking liberties. Is this just like a brush it off, move on with my life. Or is this as bad as people are trying to make a sound?

Speaker 1:

This kind of gets into that idea of that. There are times when you do let someone take advantage of you, and that's part of why he's feeling weird, I think, is that this is one time where it was not okay. This he feels in, if I have to guess read between the lines that he feels in some way responsible for what happened that night, because there had been times in the past where he would have welcomed that sort of attention, but in that specific scenario he said no and by saying no he fucked up his opportunity doing what he wanted to do. I remember having this conversation with someone feeling like I've been in that situation, but it wasn't bad, it was just I start questioning it. So the situation was that I was in a volunteer situation with someone who I once hooked up with. We had hooked up, he knew me. I forgot who he was. I still don't remember hooking up with him.

Speaker 1:

You know what I'm saying, just as years ago. But we know each other right and he'll make some comments from time to time about what he's feeling, about wanting to get back together, and I'm just like this can't happen because of now, the position I'm in, even if it did happen in the past. It can't happen now, and sometimes maybe I just don't have the wherewithal to say fuck off, and also because I'm trying not to make any waves for other people there, because I don't really feel any kind of way about it, unless I'm trying to get something done and I don't trust this person to be alone with them. You know what I mean, and I'm just like this is a problem.

Speaker 2:

I have the exact problem and I said yes and I did it and I had a long, great career at the company.

Speaker 3:

The end.

Speaker 2:

The motherfucking end, that's funny. Listen, I did it. I was under qualified for the job I was applying for. I knew he was a hot Detroit older gay.

Speaker 3:

I just went for it.

Speaker 2:

That's funny. I did more for last hell.

Speaker 1:

Oh God, that's too funny. Anybody bad at you? Because I honestly feel like it really does just matter how you personally take it. No one can tell you how to feel about something. That's one of the things he was asking. He's like how is it I feel about this? No one can fucking tell you that.

Speaker 2:

People have so much morals, but on Friday night they lose all their morals or inhibitions. He goes having fallacious behind dumpsters, but this one thing, oh my God, I'm not going to do this.

Speaker 1:

What if he just didn't want to? He's just like some old, wrinkly old fag. He didn't want it, he didn't like it.

Speaker 2:

I get it, but I think I have the problem with him asking the question. How should I feel? Nobody can answer that for you.

Speaker 1:

No, that question he's really asking is how should I feel?

Speaker 2:

No one can answer that question for you.

Speaker 1:

Not like what is the not is the way that I should feel, but what is the right way to feel. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2:

So years later, Morally right, yeah. So years later, my therapist asked me how do you feel? How did that make you feel? Now I was like it made me feel like a bitch with a check. That's what it made me feel For a car and a vacation. You know what I mean? Fuck, I'm good. I looked at it. I was young and hot. I was like how many times can I get away with this? You know what I mean? Shit, let's go. That's a good point, and I wanted Vy's everybody to do that.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

That was my only. I didn't feel any way about it.

Speaker 1:

That's true. It really is the key. There is no true prescription for everybody. Everybody is built different, and so it could be ego shredding for some. If you're confident in yourself, I think for some, this guy is clearly shredding, and the only advice I would give to him is to tell them everything and don't be ashamed of what happened, cause it sounds like he's questioning whether or not he should tell these new people why he quit. I think they would understand why he left.

Speaker 2:

I would, I totally would. Yeah, I would be like I'm in a sexual or a rad situation.

Speaker 1:

And you don't have to feel bad about it. I just say I got pushed out Like I would have stayed, but the fact is the person retaliated against me because I said no.

Speaker 2:

Now see, ladies and gentlemen, if you go ahead and put out yeah, what about that?

Speaker 1:

You might get what you want, but they also could just be a manipulative. They could be that manipulative prick who gives you nothing and say I didn't promise you shit, you got you get nothing the town's under straight and says go ahead and be a whore. I was like I want some reassurances before I put out. I'm sorry, let me see, I don't want to.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I couldn't wait. I couldn't wait, I could have just been like this.

Speaker 2:

Nigga just took my dick. Oh no, oh man, those things. And then years later I saw him in a club. He spoke and so he was. So I told him he was like yeah, he was like I kept track of your progress with the company. I did very well. And I said thanks to you. Yeah, you were literally a leg up for me. You just push.

Speaker 1:

A leg up, that's funny.

Speaker 2:

So I don't know. So my question I would I would tell the truth to fill the hole in my resume and to make myself feel better. Obviously, struggle with this, yeah absolutely so.

Speaker 1:

I think that'll bring us to the end of this recording, though Let me make sure to plug our other shows. Make sure to join Greg on Saturday at noon, of course. Join me Wednesday at 7pm. You can catch this podcast tomorrow. Episode 50 drops tomorrow on all the pod catchers and thank you so much for listening. We will catch you in the next episode.

Speaker 2:

Bye.